Dedimania forum

kaplovh wrote:

Player «ηωο»КίŋğVāđêŗ (login: forceair) is currently cheating on my dedi recs (my login: kaplovh)...

If he is, I doubt he's targeting you specifically, as he's been at this for a long time.

And for example, your 19.94 replay on this track is faster than his 20.00 online time. If he was targeting you, he'd probably make sure to beat your offline time too.

kaplovh wrote:

Well, to convince you :
-If you see the time interval between my recs you notice that it took me really long times to set the records (and on several days). On his side, his intervals are usually between 2 and 5 minutes in one day. In other words, all my efforts to set a brillant record (few hours attempt) are broken by a guy that does the track in two minutes...

Can't verify that, and it's no hard proof in itself, though implausible to get done without cheating.

kaplovh wrote:

-Almost all of his cheated records have one checkpoint to "hide" his trick...

I'm aware of that, but again playing mostly such tracks isn't proof of cheating. It is indeed usually impossible to prove cheating on such tracks though.

The fact that most tracks are shitty LOL tracks, where possible cheating is virtually indistinguishable from sheer dumb luck, doesn't help either.

kaplovh wrote:

-My "unfeasible" records (number #1) are usually posted on TMX to let you see it.

I don't have time to search for them, but even then they are hard to compare with online records, since I don't know how to extract the sector times from replays.

kaplovh wrote:

-He's playing one his locked and hidden server: gericomserver.

I know, but again no proof of cheating as such, just of unsportsmanship.

kaplovh wrote:

I know there was a post about this guy and his server but this time it is really obvious that there is something odd...

Right, but several suspect circumstances don't add up to proof that's solid enough to ban him and delete this recs.

I examined several dozen of the tracks where he has #1 that do have at least one checkpoint (besides the finish) and found half a dozen very unlikely times (which I deleted), the most likely cheating being 12.09 on this one. But it's not enough to outright delete everything.
I'll look into it further this week.

kaplovh wrote:

He is indeed targeting me, last evening when I was playing alone on his "NWo Noob Mini" server (public) he welcomed me (using some kind of an external chat tool tough) by telling me just a few words like "Hi Cheater, you're not allowed on this server". It seems he checked my recs on dedi stats and, after seeing alot of #1 by me, believed I was a cheater. But I still don't get it why.

Weird.

kaplovh wrote:

I've also checked a few of his records like :
UID: lt_cMNjYDB3lxtG4Y8LaGQWsmzk  His time his 0.02 faster than the actual record on TMX which is, in my opinion, the perfect time...

I looked at that one yesterday, found it suspect indeed. Deleted now.

kaplovh wrote:

UID: P5ApQte5tLtTgFABAPva4t5He47   To get 7.00 sec, the car is only at the middle of the jump whatever you were at 150 or 200% speed. Besides, his record is 1 sec faster than the TMX one.

Yeah, that really seems impossible. Deleted.

kaplovh wrote:

And a few others that follow these same rules...

I examined dozens more tracks with 2+ CPs, and deleted some 20 suspect times. More investigation to follow.

kaplovh wrote:

Here are a few other records in addition I analysed and that seem to be suspicious :

-Track UID : OIclAwrIlrprzxUH2LMW1w4jic8  Limit should be around 14.01-14.00, his 13.97 is impossible as he did in less than 3 minutes after track UID : NJG3iWNL8avdemXedJb_OuOVs05
-Track UID : ZT7jaRIvGfLbyOx2MMosNXSXSsg  Limit should be around 8.29-8.27.
-Track UID : mlVaMEKncPSRxIqrLXnxtDItV9e  After beginning at 200% speed, you can only achieve a time around 7.42. My elusive time of 7.39 was done after hundreds of tries. His 7.36 seems to be impossible.
-Track UID : Coka1kRVQt56oxBf86rb9kjROzg  His time is really "far" compared to mine and the others' time.

Agreed, all deleted.

kaplovh wrote:

By the way, I have spotted new cheaters while browsing randomly through different records :

A "pattern" of 6 cheated records on January 4 by player : iceicebaby_
-On one track of the six UID : WkJGc0l8PKISPq6FAHFciinQhr1  His record is just 0.01 faster than the 2nd (and the TMX one) but I noticed that at the only checkpoint, everyone's time is around 5.54-5.53 maximum. His time is 5.43
-On another one UID : ObEtJEz7Mjzd_x60bRExjolEGc8  At the last (or second) checkpoint, everone's time is around 11.60. His time is 12.13 (bad) but how did he managed to get 13.49 at the end ? As it is a straight line at the end, it seems he used a cheatboost or some sort.
-UID : 82vgrBsZawHBjbaS5RpzAQLKYF2  The checkpoints times for every other records are 7.3x then 17.5x, his times are much shorter (6.38 > 17.14)

Good catch, at least one of those should have been caught by my automatic scans (some others don't follow the typical cheating pattern and are hard to detect that way). Banned login and deleted all his recs.

kaplovh wrote:

Two cheated record from player : kosova27

-UID : _1qt1Y0KKgc0pKDbkSQdIclQ7wg  Checkpoints times are around 9.1x and 10.5x (or 10.6x) for the others. His times are 8.73, 10.20
-UID : B0pXvkRjkVYXIKRmBY_hJ6sRcAg  Limit should be around 9.96 at full speed. His time is impossible.

Right, deleted those two and his other 19 recs.

kaplovh wrote:

Track UID : Pze_06bOrqibXrk1ubT2Mp8az06. All top 3 are cheats. Even using the "bug finish", it is impossible to do under 9.00

Hmm, how peculiar. Deleted all three, and did some collateral damage.

kaplovh wrote:

Good luck in your investigation Xymph...

Haven't had time for that since my previous post in this thread, but I'll have another go at it this week or weekend.

Thanks for the hunting assist.

kaplovh wrote:

-Track UID : 47eotUMUhfGv7dLUgTOYnzcozj1 (A pretty straight-forward track)
Checkpoint time for the first is 7.00 but around 7.10 for other recs (7.09 max)

7.08, actually. So yeah, 7.00 would be impossible, deleted.

kaplovh wrote:

-Track UID : Mn_bYJzkBTOlUMG44WBGefec0oc
Record #1 looks cheated and #2 looks suspect.

10.67 looks impossible, hard to say whether it's cheated though, as does the other one. Deleted #1.

kaplovh wrote:

-Player login : crip76
No cheating pattern noticed but only one obvious cheated record from him
Track UID : FXoR5SNz19DKC0shvARsFHXQjRi  Time at checkpoint is 3.97 while maximum time you can achieve here is 4.94 (done by me and player : thomac).

Yep, definitely cheated. Deleted, along with a bunch more of his recs.

kaplovh wrote:

-Player login : oooooopmcb
No cheating pattern noticed but some suspect records
Track UID : 3NSe0fXx5aokXim8G2scBC8ie3m  Checkpoint time for the first is 3.43 but 3.44 for the 29 others.
Track UID : xc2lF49u3Jfd6CAsm5Sq6kDTYSh  Overall time is oddly fast compared to the 2nd and the TMX one.
Track UID : BFGmU0fKIlIfIaSb3IlygKdyhMf  Dedi #14, but 7.12 at checkpoint while the others have maximum 7.23

And aqe5nZP3AswRy8IGLZflIssPZR5 with 4.39 at CP1 but 4.42 is the fastest possible. All deleted and login banned.

Thanks again.

xymph wrote:

kaplovh, what do you think?

Quite a decent examination you did there
I was also thinking about #2-#30 ranges earlier but, because I'm currently limited to 120 records displayed on the page, I could not continue checking tracks (btw is there a way to resolve that ?).

I'll have a look on the tracks you listed in the frame and I'll give you a response this week.

slig wrote:

I just have relaxed partially the limitation

Hi Slig

Thanks very much, 400 is just enough for me
Examination under way ...

forceair wrote:

hallo, sorry kann nicht so gut englisch....

Well, I can read German, but I'm still going to reply in English.

Funny how you show up in this low-traffic forum soon after we're talking about you. How did you find out?

Anyway, I'm glad you came here, then I don't have to try and contact you via in-game message or your public server.

forceair wrote:

was kann ich dafür wenn der kaplovh für eine map fast ne stunde auf seinem privatserver braucht um einen 1. dedi zufahren?

That's not really relevant. Although the fact that you sometimes submit #1's every 5-10 mins is suspect, it's not proof of anything.

forceair wrote:

oder denkt ihr ich gebe 30euro aus um zu cheaten?

Possibly, and that certainly wouldn't be a first. There are already 159 United logins banned and blacklisted.

forceair wrote:

ausserdem kann man ned cheaten..jeder server hat sowieso dieses anti cheat plugin

That's an invalid argument in your case. Almost all your recs are submitted from your private gericomserver server, running the obsolete XAseco v1.09. A private server would allow anyone to disable anti-cheat checks in any controller, and besides, the checks only worked against the initial primitive cheats anyway.

forceair wrote:

was soll die diskusion hier? wenn die leute meine ich würde cheaten ist das ned mein problem

The discussion is about a sizable number of your records having implausible or even impossible checkpoint patterns. And about a large majority of the pertaining tracks having no checkpoints, so that it's harder to detect whether records are being cheated. And about large gaps between you and the rest on tightly contested tracks, where even the TMX top-10 has a narrow spread.

If my conclusion eventually would be (it's not yet) that you are a cheater, then your recs will be deleted and your server be blocked, so you better consider it your problem, and seriously too.

forceair wrote:

log in querolant: der hat hammer zeiten gefahren und er wurde als cheater bezeichnet und die zeiten wurden gelöscht

Bad example. It turned out he drove on a server with a broken controller which submitted bogus records and checkpoint patterns. Now that he's driving again, he's submitting a mix of records all over the top-30, not mostly #1's like you.

forceair wrote:

oder login: rus_mischa ..der hat über 6000 dedis ! davon über 1500  1. dedis

Another incomparable example. For starters your numbers are all wrong:  rus_mischa currently has 4745 top-30 records of which 774 are #1's, or 16%. Of his #1's only 110 have no checkpoints, or 14%.

On the other hand, you have 1678 top-30 recs of which 1028 are #1's, or 61%. Of your #1's 806 have no CPs, or 78%. Again not hard proof, but it does make you a lot more suspect, which is another reason why we're talking about your recs and not rus_mischa's.

forceair wrote:

manche maps hat er über eine sec besser als die anderen

Maybe, but the checkpoint patterns on most of his #1's are similar to those of the rest of the top-30 on those tracks. More relevantly, on really tightly contested tracks with a narrow spread between #2 and #30 (a few hundredths), rus_mischa's #1 is just 0.01s or (very rarely) 0.02s better than #2. You have dozens of #1's with bigger gaps, as listed a few posts earlier, which is statistically very unlikely to be legitimate.

forceair wrote:

aber das sind halt fahrer die das spiel können und die tricks kennen wie man LEGAL schneller ist..oder eine map wo am anfang turbo 200% bekommen kann..manche warten 0.6 sec..oder bremsen vorher kurzanb.. ich bekommen sorfort 200%..wie ?? sofort am start nach rechtausscheren..klappt fast immer..das sind so kleinere tricks

That's an obvious trick, but doesn't apply on tracks without that turbo.

forceair wrote:

wie gesagt ich finde es scheisse das einige dedi von mir gelöscht worden sind..nur weil einer das spiel nicht richt kann oder nicht verlieren kann

kaplovh didn't make the decision to delete the recs, I did after examining the tracks and concluding that those recs were most likely cheated.

forceair wrote:

alle meine neuen dedi könnt ihr ja jetzt per replay verfolgen..unter "kingvader"

Yes, I watched one or two of your replays and they looked legitimate. That doesn't mean none of your older recs aren't cheated though.

forceair wrote:

wie gesagt : ich habe es ned nötig zu cheaten

I disagree: United login michaelundmartina and Nations login tobi123455 were caught cheating and banned before, both with your nickname «ηωο»КίŋğVāđêŗ
Again, not proof that you're cheating with forceair, but it does make you more suspect. And that history also makes it more likely that you found a way to cheat much more subtly than before, having learned the fate that obvious cheaters meet. It could be that you merely interlace your #1 submissions with occasional #2-30 recs to reduce suspicion.

forceair wrote:

ich hoffe damit ist das thema beendet

No, you're not getting out that easily.

As outlined above, there are a lot of suspicions, but I'm not certain yet (if I was, we wouldn't be having this discussion ).
You may think I'm overly harsh and cynical, but after having banned nearly 2000 logins for cheating (and warned another 1100), I'm very skeptical when someone just comes into the forum to claim they didn't cheat.
In your case it's not certain whether or not you cheated with login forceair in the past year+, hence the statistics to try and determine whether it's likely or not.

So, if you want to provide certainty, you need to prove that your #1 times on most of the tracks listed above are legitimate, by uploading replays of those times to TMX. You can enter each of the UIDs into this page to find their names. Let me know when you have uploaded them (you can do them in a couple of batches over, say, the coming week).

If they look legitimate, I will apologize and let you race in peace. If not, or if you don't upload any/enough replays, then I think you can guess my conclusion, and the fate of your recs and server is already mentioned above.

Also, try writing in paragraphs, and without all those "....". It would make your posts a lot more readable, even in German.

kaplovh wrote:

I have finally updated the UID list mentioned a few posts earlier. I added several descriptions for each track (like the theoretical limit, the "cuts" possibility, my best run).
50/50 means "suspect"
? means "no idea"
/ either means "can't make an enough good time to check further" or "time limit of the track is obvious"

Thanks for the thorough analysis, nice work.

Obviously, your best being not as fast as forceair's times doesn't necessarily mean his times are cheated, but the theoretical limits do help to narrow down the list to the tracks that matter.

kaplovh wrote:

I see that only one record is not really cheated because the TMX time is faster than the dedi #1. A few of the cheated ones are just plain obvious (on more-or-less straight forward tracks).

Right.

kaplovh wrote:

I found out that a - lets say - "small boost cheat" is used to make these times (at the start or right at the end) not like those used by novice cheaters (flying car, ghost car(???) or whatever).

The most common one is actually the speed-start hack which gives a 2.0-2.5s lead. That's what led to the vast majority of bans and warnings.

kaplovh wrote:

I think it gives forceair a 0.10 or 0.20 boost every time he plays but, as it is quite difficult to be close to the #2-#30 range, he sometimes "accidentally" makes 0.05+ too far from it.

That's what I was thinking too. And remember, these tracks were filtered down from his most recent 400 #1's - there might be a whole batch more among the other 400+ tracks.

But forceair, I still want to give you the opportunity to prove otherwise.

kaplovh wrote:

I'm also waiting for his TMX records, the actual ones are made from a server other than gericomserver.
Note that he can use the link "tmnforever or nations.tm-exchange.com/main.aspx?action=trackshow&uid=the trackID" if I'm not mistaken.

Ah nice, I wasn't aware the uid= parameter worked on the main site too, not just the API.

So forceair, I dropped most of tracks where cheating is unconfirmed or unlikely from the list, leaving 32 of the 41 tracks. I added the correct section URLs to their TMX pages, so it should be easy for you to upload your replays for these tracks, and for me to download them.

http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … n9aWRG3I_d
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … qreu9txsgc
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … lSYPj2dhh6
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … kVNmJMj5a4
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … wj5xbkfATc
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … 5cvvhGIEfg
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … Ps5adRmyil
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … BbDZkV5TXe
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … suZt3Ywrr9
http://nations.tm-exchange.com/main.asp … 0ppxxM4v1k
http://nations.tm-exchange.com/main.asp … ih6H_PNDJl
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … NEdeV8IHWe
http://nations.tm-exchange.com/main.asp … BIt6BcMBM1
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … EJ7jKPWV_i
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … F_pfAokJLj
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … snpg5kIZme
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … mio2mRKJP7
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … mTjfUmh1uk
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … mY0CW4jdRe
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … vtMv5fbgrf
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … G73kgU11q5
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … Fc0K3tAtW3
http://nations.tm-exchange.com/main.asp … a_ngGybKEd
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … z5BYGek8li
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … bUJsWGfDIh
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … 5lTTm_Pxsw
http://united.tm-exchange.com/main.aspx … 9LJ0jgirr2
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … jRMk0hNLL6
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … 6cpKdbMyK0
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … CcMO6uZqze
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … ztiSzC3aQf
http://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main. … VMjvz0fJi6

Please let me know when you're done, or any other feedback on the above.

hi nochmal
und wie soll man maps cheaten bis auf 2-5 hundellstel cheaten??? den möchte ich gerne kennen lernen aso den login tobi123455 kenne ich ned sorry bin ich auch ned

so nun habe ich aber auch ne map gefunden: login lulian111222

id: 3TRaBMVnjBbBjqVIPtAHgq7a9Za

2. cp zeit IST UNMÖGLICH !!!!!!!!!! bitte controlieren..... weiß leider nicht was das für ein hack ist aber die 2. cp zeit

ist meinung auch von anderen fahren unmöglich.... grüsse

forceair wrote:

und wie soll man maps cheaten bis auf 2-5 hundellstel cheaten?

Subtly and carefully, I guess. I don't know all the possible cheats out there.

forceair wrote:

so nun habe ich aber auch ne map gefunden: login lulian111222

No: julian111222

forceair wrote:

id: 3TRaBMVnjBbBjqVIPtAHgq7a9Za

2. cp zeit IST UNMÖGLICH ! bitte controlieren..... weiß leider nicht was das für ein hack ist aber die 2. cp zeit

That's strange indeed, but it does seem to be a two-route track, so maybe he figured out the way to do the non-default route, or got really lucky bouncing off the first ring-CP through the other one, or something like that.
His other recent records don't show strange CP patterns, so I wouldn't suspect him of cheating.

hallo,

ich finde es nicht gerecht das du mir all meine dedis löschst...aus welchem grund ?? ich cheate nicht..nur weil einer nicht verlieren kann und meint wenn einer besser ist, er würde direkt cheaten... ich nehme das schon ernst... aber vieleicht läuft das dedimania system nicht richtig, weil dar und habe es zufällig mitbekommen das wenn er einen neuen dedi fährt von 1-30,  bekommt er nach zieleinfahrt  0.02 an zeit gutgeschrieben!!!! ich habe das so verstanden das seine zeit angezeigt wird und im dedi 0.02 besser angezeigt wird  , er weis nicht warum... und es sei auch nicht immer so... wie gesagt, ich kann mit reinem gewissen sagen das ich nicht cheate!!! meine replays kann ich nur manuell speichern..warum weis ich nicht.. das heisst im spiel: voriges replay speichern... und wie soll es gehn das man bis auf die hundellste sekunde cheaten kann ?? ich glaube das kann keiner.. nochmal: ich habe das nicht nötig... und finde es nicht fair das du alle dedis löschen willst grüsse

forceair wrote:

ich finde es nicht gerecht das du mir all meine dedis löschst...aus welchem grund ?

Standard practice for all cheaters.  Those recs cannot be trusted anymore, they're deleted as punishment for the cheater, and to make room in the top-30's for other (hopefully) legitimate recs.

forceair wrote:

ich cheate nicht..nur weil einer nicht verlieren kann und meint wenn einer besser ist, er würde direkt cheaten...

No, you keep talking around the real issue. The real issue is that your times on the tracks listed above are way outside the range of times that anybody else (online or offline) can drive, by a margin which the tracks' designs doesn't appear to allow. But you're invited to prove otherwise. Take the opportunity, or stop talking and wasting my time.

forceair wrote:

ich nehme das schon ernst... aber vieleicht läuft das dedimania system nicht richtig, weil dar und habe es zufällig mitbekommen das wenn er einen neuen dedi fährt von 1-30,  bekommt er nach zieleinfahrt  0.02 an zeit gutgeschrieben! ich habe das so verstanden das seine zeit angezeigt wird und im dedi 0.02 besser angezeigt wird  , er weis nicht warum... und es sei auch nicht immer so...

That's utter nonsense, unless you hacked XAseco on your private server to do just that, which also makes you cheater.

forceair wrote:

meine replays kann ich nur manuell speichern..warum weis ich nicht.. das heisst im spiel: voriges replay speichern... und wie soll es gehn das man bis auf die hundellste sekunde cheaten kann ?

You keep repeating yourself, I don't like to repeat myself. Besides, if you had cheated by 0.5-2.0s on those tracks, it would be immediately obvious that the times were cheated. The whole reason I've let you race for many months while monitoring your times (yes, that's how long you've already been on my radar), is that the margin is so small it's not immediately obvious. But the margin is still improbably large for those particular tracks now that I've finally gotten around to a thorough investigation.

You claim you're such a good driver with such special tricks that you can drive those times easily, sometimes within several minutes. You claim you don't need to cheat. Now it's time to stop claiming and talking. Instead, prove it by uploading the replays, either from your Autosaves directory or by driving the times again. If you're as good as you claim, it shouldn't take too much trouble to clear your name.

forceair wrote:

ich glaube das kann keiner.. nochmal: ich habe das nicht nötig... und finde es nicht fair das du alle dedis löschen willst

Cheating isn't fair to other players, that's why this is going to happen unless you prove you didn't cheat. It's your choice.

forceair wrote:

also habe den ordner My Documents/Trackmania/Tracks/Replays/Autosave gefunden . aber. da sind über 4500 replays drinne. glaubste ich gehe jetzt alle replay einzeln durch? das ist ne menge arbeit. ganz ehrlich, darauf habe ich auch keine lust.

Then it's easier to drive those times again, that's why the list of TMX URLs is there a few posts ago. Unless you're not as good as you claim, and cheated them. Either way, suit yourself.

forceair wrote:

wenn du meinst du müsstes meine dedis löschen wo ich den kaplovh seine dedis geschlagen habe , dann tue das. nur das sagt mir einiges über euer system aus. nur weil der vogel über eine stunde braucht für einen neuen dedi zufahren und andere leuten verfolgt,

Boy, you really have a thick skull. I don't care whose records you beat, as long as you do it legitimately. kaplovh's recs have nothing to do with this, he doesn't even have recs on all the tracks listed above. It's your times on those tracks that indicate you're a cheater, and cheaters get banned once caught, and in most cases all their records are deleted.

Beyond that, I don't see any confirmation that you read and understood my previous posts, you're just running around in circles making the same claims and complaints, instead of answering or proving anything.

On Jan 31 all your recs will be deleted unless you produce the replays. No more talking.